Prof. Roland Wiesndanger; Photo: Sebastian Engels
Recently FOIA’ed e-mails from February 2020 revealed that Anthony Fauci, Francis Collins, Peter Daszak, Jeremy Farrar and others involved in “Gain of Function” research at the Wuhan Lab conspired to quash any investigation into the true origins of the Covid-19 outbreak and their culpability.
Dr. Roland Wiesendanger of the University of Hamburg was one of the first scientists to publish on the possible lab leak in February 2021, and was defamed by mainstream media as a “conspiracy theorist.” Speaking to author Stefan Frank, he now demands a criminal investigation on suspicion of manslaughter in millions of cases.
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Professor Wiesendanger, e-mails have come to light this month that cast a very bad light on Dr. Anthony Fauci, the White House’s chief immunologist. What are these e-mails and why have their contents only now become public?
The e-mails have come to the attention of a broader public through the publication of a letter from Republican members of the US Congress. It concerns the e-mail correspondence of Anthony Fauci with some very respected virologists in the period from Feb. 1 to Feb. 4, 2020, in connection with a conference call on Feb. 1, 2020. This e-mail correspondence has been available for several weeks due to a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act in the U.S., but was previously known only to insiders. As a result of Republican members of Congress making these e-mails public, their contents are now available to the media and all interested parties worldwide.
Why are these e-mails such a bombshell?
The explosive thing is that they make it very clear that we are dealing with a massive cover-up of the origin of the Covid pandemic. As early as January 2020 – before the first cases of Covid occurred in the USA or Europe – several leading virologists informed Anthony Fauci that the gene sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which was known worldwide since January 11, 2020, has a special feature, namely a so-called Furin cleavage site, which does not naturally occur in the type of corona viruses to which SARS-CoV-2 belongs.
This Furin cleavage site ensures that SARS-CoV-2 viruses can penetrate human cells particularly easily, so human-to-human transmission can occur very easily, in a way previously unknown for coronaviruses.
So this was something completely new and gave several virologists reason to conclude that SARS-CoV-2 was very likely of non-natural origin – in other words, that SARS-CoV-2 might actually have come from a laboratory in Wuhan.
When we last spoke, you pointed out that the proximity of the outbreak site to the world’s largest institute for corona virus research in Wuhan suggested this conclusion.
That’s right. In February 2020, two Chinese scientists first made this assumption public on “ResearchGate” website. Now we know that several famous virologists involved in a conference call Feb. 1, 2020, and in an e-mail exchange, actually had the same suspicion and issued a warning to Fauci as early as January 2020.
Top Virologists Warned Fauci of Lab Leak February 2020
From the e-mail correspondence, it appears that there was collusion, coordinated by Anthony Fauci, Francis Collins – then the head of the National Institutes of Health in the U.S., who actually resigned late last year – and Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust. The major consequence of this collusion was that within a few days, those who were involved in this conference call abandoned their original assumption and performed a 180 degree about-face.
What did these virologists do then?
Just two or three days after that conference call, they set out to do three things:
First, under the leadership of Peter Daszak, they organized that famous open letter in “The Lancet,” signed by 27 leading virologists, denouncing the laboratory theory as a “conspiracy theory.” This was done at a time when no one could rule out a laboratory origin in any way.
Second, they sent a corresponding letter to the US National Academy of Sciences.
Thirdly, under the authorship of Dr. Kristian Andersen, they submitted a publication to the journal “Nature Medicine” which strongly contributed to misleading the public and especially the media. The abstract of this publication states very strongly that a non-natural origin is out of the question, even though this question was actually left unresolved at the end of the article. Most readers probably did not read that far, however. As a matter of fact, the article makes no strong arguments either way.
These three measures played a key role in the fact that the world, and virtually all journalists, accepted the narrative that the laboratory theory is a conspiracy theory.
But now, explosively, it turns out that many of the virologists on this conference call were aware of a very different view, shared by three Nobel prize winners: Luc Montagnier of France, a Nobel laureate from Kyoto University, and a Nobel laureate from California, David Baltimore, who has even spoken of a ‘smoking gun’.
This means that the claim there was a “broad consensus” among virologists that SARS-CoV-2 was of natural origin – is now clearly refuted. On the contrary, there was a consensus among leading virologists that this Furin cleavage site clearly indicated a non-natural origin, i.e., a laboratory origin. This fact was deliberately twisted into its opposite for political reasons, and to shield virus research from public scrutiny, misleading the entire world.
Anthony Fauci has since defended himself in a television interview, saying that he had never ruled out a laboratory origin, merely considered a natural origin more likely, and still believes that. So allegedly, he has not changed his position at all.
But anyone can look up what Fauci really said between February 2020 and the end of 2020. Just like the other participants in the conference call, he was firmly in the camp of the zoonosis theory of natural origin. Which is no surprise considering that in a paper ten years ago, in 2012, Anthony Fauci wrote that the knowledge we can gain from so-called “gain-of-function” research on viruses – including corona viruses – to make them more infectious to humans, outweighs the risk of a global pandemic.
First Rule of Global Pandemics: Cover Your Ask
So when it become obvious a global pandemic was looming in early 2020, originating in the vicinity of the labs that have done the most intensive research on corona viruses, and gain-of-function research in particular, Anthony Fauci of course immediately saw the danger. If this connection between the pandemic and a lab leak became established, it would not only be a problem for the Chinese, but of course also for himself and all the other virologists who supported this gain-of-function research over the past ten years or carried it out themselves, despite the moratorium the Obama administration placed on funding such dangerous research.
Anthony Fauci – and this is documented – circumvented this moratorium in place between 2014 and 2017, and continued to funnel funds to the Wuhan Institute of Virology through EcoHealth Alliance. Of course, if the public had become convinced that it was this very lab that caused the current pandemic, Anthony Fauci, Peter Daszak, the president of EcoHealth Alliance, and all those involved would have been in deep trouble.
Of course, now that the cover-up has been exposed, they will be in even bigger trouble. But I think they actually believed they could get away with their cover-up.
But now Fauci & Co. have been exposed. The e-mail correspondence has become known, and Republicans in Congress are asking questions.
Yes, especially Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky, who has repeatedly gone after Anthony Fauci with unpleasant questions. There were several hearings, and other U.S. senators also questioned him. And it seems now that Fauci gave testimony before the U.S. Congress that many consider perjury. He testified under oath that the National Institutes of Health had not funded any gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute – although it subsequently emerged that such research had indeed been funded in Wuhan, and leading experts from the United States clearly regard this as gain-of-function research. There is no room for interpretation: research reports by the EcoHealth Alliance that have become public have confirmed that biotechnological manipulation increased the infectivity of coronaviruses. This is, by definition, gain-of-function research. That is why calls for Fauci’s resignation are sure to increase in the coming weeks.
You mentioned EcoHealth Alliance several times. Tell us about them.
EcoHealth Alliance, whose president is Peter Daszak [appointed by the WHO 2020 to participate in the investigation into the origin of Covid-19 – Ed.], has collected extremely large sums of money over many years from various American companies and research funding institutions – starting with the NIAID headed by Anthony Fauci, but also from other American organizations, in order to investigate the pandemic potential of biotechnologically modified viruses. That is, they have been modifying coronaviruses in the lab and creating new chimeric (composite) coronaviruses to see how such alteration could make them more contagious to humans. The objective was to find out whether such changes might also occur in nature, and what dangers might be posed to humans. In fact, however, this research has produced no benefit at all in the last ten or fifteen years, but only significant dangers.
All clear-thinking scientists agree on this. Recent investigations – and this has become incredibly important in recent weeks, in addition to the publication of the Fauci correspondence – have shown that EcoHealth Alliance, led by Peter Daszak, but also involving Dr. Shi Zheng-Li from the Wuhan Institute of Virology and others, actually wrote in their research proposals that they intend to insert so-called Furin cleavage sites in both SARS and MERS viruses. MERS viruses are also coronaviruses, but they are 10 to 15 times more deadly than SARS viruses.
Virologists Planned Research that Exposed Mankind to Catastrophe
This has shaken the international community, because there is now a document that proves virologists actually planned and applied for experiments that have the potential to be a genocide-level event, to put it bluntly.
So virologists planned – and this is not speculation, but is documented in their proposals – research that would expose all mankind to the danger of a massive catastrophe. Everybody knows no laboratory in the world is safe enough for such research, and we know these experiments were not even carried out in labs of the highest safety level 4, but in level 2 labs. That is absolutely unconscionable.
So now the connection is very clear. These 2018 research proposals prove that the scientists involved planned to insert a Furin cleavage site into SARS-like coronaviruses to allow them to infect human cells much more readily.
And now we know from the Fauci e-mails that the leading virologists saw precisely this characteristic of the SARS-CoV-2 virus as a particularly strong indication of a laboratory origin.
When you put these two things together, there is no other possible conclusion than that this virus is the result of a laboratory accident in Wuhan.
No Other Possible Conclusion than Lab Accident in Wuhan
But it was not only the fault of the Chinese government and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, but of an international network of virologists. Is that fair to say?
Yes, especially as regards the participation of US scientists. In my study on the origin of the corona pandemic, published almost exactly one year ago, I included a copy of the grant Daszak received from Fauci’s NIAID and pointed out that this extremely risky research was funded with U.S. taxpayer money, and that this extreme danger was created not only by the CCP, but also by the U.S. government, and that both countries had an interest in keeping the truth about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 secret.
It sounds like the ego trip of a bunch of mad scientists. Or was it about money?
Both. On the one hand, it was about the prestige of the scientists involved. I want to make it clear once again: The catastrophe we are currently experiencing is not primarily the result of a failure on the part of states such as China or the USA. It is first and foremost the failure of scientists who were obviously abusing their responsibility. In the end, they were only concerned about their own prestige.
This point has also been discussed in the scientific community. The degree of danger posed by the genetically-manipulated viruses was taken as a measure for the quality of new scientific publications. In other words, the greater the pandemic potential, the more likely you were to get published in the most prestigious journals, such as “Nature” and “Science.”
USA had Interest in Keeping the Truth about SARS-CoV-2 Secret
In fact, Shi Zheng-Li, Peter Daszak and others such as Ralph Baric have been able to publish one paper after another in these highly respected journals. The more dangerous the viruses, the greater the thrill, because of the threat of a pandemic, and the greater the willingness of the research organizations to provide funding. The logic was, the greater the danger, the more important it is to fund the research.
The annual salary of Peter Daszak, like that of Anthony Fauci, is well over $400,000, more than the American president earns. So it was not just a matter of prestige for those involved, not even in China. Salaries there also depend heavily on the number of publications in the most respected journals. So in addition to purely scientific prestige, it was also about money.
In the fall, a report was published by the American intelligence services on the possible origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, commissioned by Joe Biden, which made no mention of these facts. Didn’t the intelligence services have access to Anthony Fauci’s e-mails?
We have to distinguish between the part of the report that became public and the classified part. Of course, we only know the public part, and there is nothing in it of any value, as you know: It’s a wishy-washy whitewash. But that was to be expected. What government in the world would disclose that it was substantially involved in this research, and possibly contributed to the outbreak of a global current pandemic?
Joe Biden Had No Reason to Tell the Truth
Let’s assume that it was one hundred percent certain that it was a laboratory accident. There would be enormous claims for damages from all the countries of the world, not only against China, but also against the USA. What government would admit such a thing?
You can see this in how U.S. President Donald Trump behaved. First, he stated very strongly in the spring of 2020, that this virus came from the lab in Wuhan, but then he failed to provide any evidence. Even in the fall of 2021, in an interview with a TV station, when asked if he knew where the pandemic came from, he said: Yes. But when the reporter wanted to know where from, President Trump said he was not allowed to say.
So even an American president is not allowed to reveal everything, especially where America’s national interests are impacted. So we can’t expect to learn the truth from American intelligence. That’s why pressure had to be exerted by non-government groups to make these research proposals and the Fauci e-mails public. This was not done by the American intel community, even though they would have had the most direct access to these documents.
I know from conversations with American colleagues that the intelligence agencies commissioned by President Joe Biden did not really investigate at all. Everything we know today about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 is thanks to scientists, lay researchers on the Internet and groups like US Right to Know, which have started initiatives to bring these events to light.
What’s next? What has to happen, or what can happen, to shake up the public? This is highly explosive information, but it’s not as if all the newspapers and radio stations are reporting it.
Not in Germany, at least. In the U.S., this is an incredibly hotly debated topic in all the media, including, of course, political consequences. But you’re absolutely right that the mainstream media in Germany, in particular, is sweeping this issue under the rug – including the fact that a German virologist was also involved in that conference call on February 1, 2020, and demonstrably helped to bring about this cover-up.
You are talking about Dr. Christian Drosten of the Berlin Charité?
That’s right, yes. Only “Tichys Einblick” has written about this in Germany. In May 2020, in an NDR podcast, Drosten called the lab leak hypothesis “nonsense”. What he said is: “What I hear, even from supposed experts, simply lacks any basis. Their level of knowledge doesn’t go beyond superficial, textbook knowledge. And with this limited knowledge, these people trumpet videos to the world and encourage very dangerous conspiracy theorists, some of whom also have political agendas. That’s irresponsible.”
This is proof that Drosten is involved in this whole tangle of lies. We now know for a fact that top virologists were worried about a possible laboratory origin of SARS-CoV-2 as early as January/February 2020. For him to call these top colleagues “supposed experts” with “superficial, textbook knowledge” in May 2020, is a scandal that must finally become public. This is no longer acceptable. He is misleading the public.
“Experts” Bear Enormous Responsibility
We have to state very clearly that Dr. Drosten, Dr. Fauci and all other colleagues involved in this cover-up, bear enormous responsibility for giving absolution to the CCP rather than pressuring China to let an inquiry commission go to Wuhan in February 2020 and find out exactly what happened at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. At the time, the only country that demanded an immediate investigation, which would have been the logical and urgently necessary thing to do, was Australia.
It was not only Drosten’s fault, of course. All the participants in that conference call of Feb. 1, 2020, took on the same role in their respective countries, presenting the zoonosis theory as the only plausible theory to the public in a media-savvy way in the USA, Great Britain, etc., while everything supporting the laboratory accident theory was branded as conspiracy theory.
This misled the entire world, the media and the scientific community. That is extremely reprehensible. Dr. Drosten has lost all credibility as a scientist. It is the task of science to stand by the truth and not to put political agendas or personal interests first. This is a disaster for science as a whole.
If we had known more about the origin of the virus, would we have done things differently to fight the pandemic?
There were many things that could have been done differently. These warnings about the probable laboratory origin of SARS-CoV-2 already existed in January, beginning of February 2020 at the latest. That was before COVID-19 had spread widely in Europe and the USA.
Both our communication and our response could have benefited from these insights, especially the political response. If we had known from the beginning that this is a completely new virus, artificially created – almost perfectly adapted to infect humans – and not comparable to any naturally occurring viruses, the whole discussion that COVID-19 is “like the flu” would not have arisen.
Flu viruses are of natural origin, whereas here we are dealing with an artificial virus type adapted to humans, optimized to dock to human ACE2 cell receptors and to enter human cells by means of the Furin cleavage site. If this had been clear from the beginning, we certainly could have avoided a lot of pointless discussions about whether the virus is dangerous or not. This is at the doorstep of all those who covered it up.
Virologists from USA and Europe Complicit in Cover-Up
Since the Fauci e-mails were published, this is now fact, even if some people still deny the lab origin. Not only was there a cover-up on the part of the Chinese government and Chinese scientists, but leading virologists from numerous countries have been complicit in this cover-up, and are therefore partly responsible for the failure to respond in a timely and appropriate manner.
In one of these e-mails from Anthony Fauci, he expresses concern that a discussion of a laboratory origin could cause “unnecessary damage” to “science in general” and “especially to China” and could “distract” scientists. In an April 2020 e-mail, he expresses hope that the discussion will eventually go away on its own.
That’s a nice way of putting it. Actually, the greatest damage would be to Fauci himself, because he vehemently defended and promoted dangerous gain-of-function research for many years, and he himself was responsible, not least for circumventing the moratorium imposed by the U.S. government under Barack Obama.
He bears full responsibility; he should be held liable. The fact that Fauci promoted and demonstrably outsourced gain-of-function research because – according to his own statement – it was too dangerous makes it quite clear that he was aware of the potential danger.
In the e-mail correspondence about a possible laboratory origin, it was also mentioned that a discussion about it could “disturb international harmony.” In reality, what Fauci really wanted was to get his own neck out of the noose.
Do you think that there will be a parliamentary investigation in Germany, like in the US Congress – and that Christian Drosten will have to answer for his actions?
I hope so. However, this is an issue that needs to be pursued not only nationally but also internationally, because the implications are global. All the countries of the world have had to pay for what these virologists did. This is not just a question for the scientific community. It has been said that “science must sort this out.” But it became political when U.S. President Donald Trump took a position, and by now, it’s not just a matter of politics either. It’s about the very real accusation of manslaughter in millions of cases, and then covering up those crimes.
A New Form of Scientific Terrorism
This is why a legal discussion is now beginning, not only in individual countries, but internationally. This must be dealt with from the legal point of view, as well. It is only now that everyone has become aware of what we could be threatened with in the future, as a result of the research proposals by Daszak and his co-authors that have now become public. If virologists are planning gain-of-function research with MERS viruses that are ten to fifteen times more lethal – and, as just mentioned, they actually wanted to insert Furin cleavage sites into MERS viruses as well – such research plan proposals are no longer acceptable.
If we were talking about terror attacks with such a high potential for destruction, governments would respond with all necessary and immediate action. However, we are now talking about a new form of “scientific terrorism.” In light of the potential danger, this is not overstating the case. Obviously, there are no official agencies sensitized to this yet. If virologists are planning to expose the entire human race to such uncontrollable risks and dangers, this is no longer a question of science alone, nor of politics alone, but will soon increasingly be a legal issue that is likely to occupy the International Court of Justice or the International Criminal Court in the future.
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